Zumanity Accident

[Guest]

The only obligation an individual has is to call 911. That is it. You can stare at someone and watch them die, but as long as you called 911 (if you had the means to) you are off the hook.

The Good Samaritan Laws help those without training trying to do their best. When you are trainied and acting on your own, you are held to the stringent criteria of your training standards.

[Guest]

I would like to add that it may have seemed like it took forever for them to respond. My husband and I were on the balcony front row. The show was incredible better than anything I had ever seen. The beginning routine funny as can be. The band sounded incredible. The songs went with every part of the show. They swung through the air like feathers in the sky beautiful as can be.

The ending so tragic so heart breaking I could hardly breathe. The tears so unbearable I could barely get up the stairs to leave. We went back to our rooms wondering. What would happen to both of them. We watched the news in hopes they made it. Nothing… I finally found something. I do appreciate hearing something. I would have hoped better than I have read. We send our prayers for her speedy recovery and for the strength of those all around her. If anyone has good news to report please do. We all desperately seek it.

[No One]

Well, I guess if I were injured... and the best doctor for the job was in my audience.. I'd say he's more than welcome to come help me. However, nobody would know for sure if he's the "best" doctor. And in a compromised position like that, I don't think I'd want Dr.Giggles coming to the rescue on second thought.

In most Ballet companies, if a performer is injured onstage - generally they can either make it off, or seek help from another onstage cast member to get off... or in bad scenarios (which beyond sprains, knee explosions or falls..are rather rare.) the curtain just comes down, an announcement to chill is made, and then you just wait for another announcement to say "Hey let's go." or "hey let's roll.."

Roughly.

Happy Thanksgiving today by the way to all you ker-razy Americans, I'd like to give thanks that the performers are alive and healing and I'd like to give thanks that there are people are genuinely concerned for other people then themselves on this here website.

Toasts,
Slowthree

[koozafan]

A couple of people have brought up the possibility of adding safety equipment to the show (including one woman at the show who was quoted as saying "There were no invisible ropes, no nets, not even a cushioned mats or padding below to act as a barrier and to prevent this type of accident from occurring. I cannot believe the irresponsibility of Cirque to allow their performers to take these risks"-I hate it when people chastise cirque on subjects with which they know absolutely nothing about), so I thought I should share some insight.
1) Safety lines-due to the fact almost all fabric maneuvers involve wrapping the fabric around you, it would be very easy to get tangled in safety lines. In fact, it would increase the danger because of the possibility of strangulation and that there would be more possibilities for equipment failure.
2) A net- this would mean that the fabric would have to be much higher and sightlines would be damaged. Also, it is impossible to run on a net or have a net that covers the whole stage. Thus, the fabric would have to be static.
3)Mats-unless you use stunt pads, mats wouldnt help much. And they would be extremely hard to move on/off stage, plus, due to the specific act, they would have to cover the stage.

Also; yes, they were probably overworked (but so are construction workers and other people with dangerous jobs), but they both probably love doing aerials and accept the danger-just every other aerialist out there. It's not like cirque was just some job for them. (there's a good article on circusnews.com titled Tuesdays Zumanity incident that states the same thing)

I hobe the girl is able to recove

[Poirot]

I do think there should be mats bellow.
At work you are OBLIGED to carry some PROTECTIVE stuff.
Everything one is doing is dangerous - even if you are doing nothing.
All is depend on one's point of view.
My simple question to the Organizers from the Circus du Soleil:
"Why the girl was not secured?"

[Poirot]

Second question to Realcircus:
"Why not to publish the name of the girl and what this will change ?"
This girl is very well known by all the sports community
because she is world and olympic champion in Rhythmic Gymnastics.

[Guest]

Really, why not ?

http://rsg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15883

[No One]

Meh - I don't think it matters if her name was Talulah or Frank... point is, she was hurt and you could argue that everyone in a show should come out in foam suits with crash helmets but if they are gonna play it that safe (and aesthetically unappealing) then why bother having a show?

I mean, give me enough safety lines and mats and I'll be an acrobat overnight. And look fat the whole time probably. Maybe throw in some extra cables so I don't crush an audience member...

[Poirot]

Sorry to say, but If it will caused you you will "sing another song".
It is very simple why somebody do not want the name to be published (see post above):
if the name is well known many will discuss the accident and will probably say some "friendly" worlds about so called Cirque du Soleil and
Another question is the existence of elementary protecting net 1m above the ground which is available
at ANY cirque in the World which is taking care about the artists.
Probably for Cirque du Soleil and you this is a nonsense, but pass your opinion to the parents of that poor girl
and answer me if you still will be able to speak.

[contort08]

Poirot,
Are you kidding me? I'm sorry if you have no concept of what the word circus means, but one of the main reasons the circus has found audiences through world wars, civil wars, genocides, etc is because the of the danger factor. People want to go and see other people risk their lives and perform feats that seem impossible.
Have a net one meter above stage for all acts like you said or a mat would ruin many of the acts and ultimately hurt if not destroy the industry.
As an aeralist this girl knows the danger involved in her career. She CHOSE her career knowning that she could fall and get seriously injured or worse at any moment.
You can die doing any job.

Logan

[sfogviper]

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen a tissu act performed with a net underneath? Or even safety mats? I'm not talking about super-beginner level either. I've never heard of it being done but there are definitely people here with a lot more expertise than me!

Jeff

[contort08]

I've never seen either before done with a tissue act. I saw about 20 shows this year and almost all of them had a tissue act and none used a safety mat or net.
Most circus performers I know regard tissue as one of the safest aerial acts because if you fall there is a lot that you could grab onto.

Logan

[KOUROS]

Silks number takes place both in the air and in the ground. Usually in this kind of act, the artist wraps and unwraps him-herself within the fabric. Therefore it's understandable that a safety wire, net or mat is impracticable.
Such an act is no more risky than the trapeze.
You must also know how to land on the safety net or mat. Many accidents has occured by an artist ribounding from the net.
Many performers, especially the most established ones, refuse any safety device.

[No One]

Let's also keep in mind that everyone in this line of work has suffered injuries and falls. In Ballet, good teachers will tell you "..Do it this way and let's minimize the chance for injury but understand, it's not an "if" it's a "when" factor in this business"

So from that aspect, these performers have survived mistakes made in rehearsals and they're as careful as can be I'm sure... and just think "I've survived a fall before" and every situation varies... so that's like, if you were a dancer and you suffered one sprain.. you'd never try to jump again?

But you have to also think "Next time might be worse than a sprain.." too in that regard. Cirque didn't twist her arm to join, and if they cared that little for their artists and more for us audience members' wow-factor then they'd have added tigers beneath them. On fire. Fire tigers. Hungry ones.

Some people live for thrill. It makes life exciting. At least she her injury was from doing what she loved and in some glorious format as opposed to slipping on a banana peel getting up off the couch during a commercial break and ending up in a neck brace still. How embarrassing.

[Kate]

Another question is the existence of elementary protecting net 1m above the ground which is available
at ANY cirque in the World which is taking care about the artists.

A net 1 m above the ground wouldn't stop her hitting the ground,as saftey nets bottom out by at least that much when hit with impact. Thats why flying trapeze nets are at least 3 m above the ground.And of course you then have the issue of an injured person being flung back into the air by the rebound.

IN summary-1 m high saftey nets-not a good idea

[sakurazero]

I'm amazed that you claim Cirque has no care in the safety or well-being of their performers when you have no actual experience with the company as a performer. (If you do please enlighten us). Those performers that I know in various shows have claimed that the conditions are much better and safer than many other circuses. I've also come to find through experience of friends that usually if you do your part as a good employee the company will take care of you. Now there are always exceptions, and Zu seems to have been in that sphere for the last year or so, but overall I find your statements very uninformed.

[Poirot]

Without safety nets, performers fly through the air and perform items such as the Flight of Icarus (remember him?
The Greek who fell to earth when the sun melted his wax ankle wings) and of course trapeze, juggling and
various acrobatics.
This is no animal tent circus.
Those who have seen "O" will know how amazing Cirque du Soleil is, and it is well worth the admission price.
http://www.thread.co.nz/article/2364

They balance, plunge, flip, suspend, soar, perform amazing theatrical circus skills and they do it all without safety nets"
The Gazette, Montreal
http://www.cirqueplus.com/Press/index-e.html

These guys had no safety nets and performed truly death-defying leaps, bounds and somersaults as the wheels spun
around at a ridiculous pace.
http://thejoggler.blogspot.com/2007/09/ ... eview.html

You would like to have such a reaction wouldn't you?
Without safety, danger, deadly tricks, etc....

Well, this is your opinion and I'm not going to change it.

Without appropriate safety stuff you create a condition, which "soon or late"
will start the "Wheel of Death".
And this is treated accordingly in any law-book.

I do like Circus art, but I do not like this to be a "dead art".

This is my opinion and you will not change it whatever you are saying.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A net (or a trampoline) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5m.....depends on the height at which the performers are,
but enough they to survive in the case of an accident
I do think will make the Circus not less attractive.
But if somebody is going in Cirque du Soleil expecting to see dead-ended performances,
this will not be a human, for sure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silk is very strong, too strong I can say.
If it is not thick enough and applied too firmly on the hand or leg one can
loss the feeling for a while and this more then sufficient to loss the grip.
Do not forget that it is very sliding and weightless material also.
You saw that even being very long some artists are not able to use it if it was blow apart of them
because of the air stream caused by the falling bodies, for example.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everybody knows Cirque du Soleil as the top in this type of art.

And nobody who really love the Cirque art and particularly the Cyrque du Soleil will be happy
if such accidents continue to happen there.

They will be as dusty spots on his bright reputation.

And as famous Einstein had said:
"No enough amount of (successful) experiments could prove me right.
But a single (unsuccessful) experiment will proved me wrong."

Let's the force will be with that poor girl.

[Kate]

Silk is very strong, too strong I can say.
If it is not thick enough and applied too firmly on the hand or leg one can
loss the feeling for a while and this more then sufficient to loss the grip.
Do not forget that it is very sliding and weightless material also.
You saw that even being very long some artists are not able to use it if it was blow apart of them
because of the air stream caused by the falling bodies, for example.

Have you ever felt the fabric used for tissue acts?Or even seen in up close?It is a very specific type of fabric.It is NOT weightless,although it may appear so from the audience.It is very heavy and thick,and the phenomena of it"blowing away" in the incidence of a fall is not going to happen.

However,the fabric IS soft,so is not going to restrict circulation,as a cable would.You WANT your wraps to be firm,as you have less chance of slipping through them.I have been a circus performer and coach for 8 years and have never heard of someone losing sensation in limbs from tissue wraps.

[Guest]

It's ironic you quoted a physicist when your essential understanding of physics is very flawed.

[Poirot]

You are right - I got bad marks in Physics, but excellent in logic, I guess.
And this nothing to do with the safety issues, mentioned above.

When the facts are speaking even the Gods are silent !!!

[Poirot]

Thank you very much, Kate!

You are attending these lessons, I'm just a visitor and a virtual spectateur.

The fact is that the ribbon is quite long, soft but heavy enough.
And there was plenty of time the flying nearby artists to grap it.

So, could you please tell us your version HOW and WHY it took place?

Thank you for your suggestions.

[Kate]

who knows? accidents happen

[sakurazero]

You are quoting information from other possibly flawed sources. Unless you have hard facts from your own knowledge/experience you aren't going to win others over with your arguments.

[Kero Hireyo]

Jeff: Please don´t take this the wrong way…

But

“Missy”….

Who the fuck do you think you are

You come here to a forum, where you never posted a single thing and write up pieces onto and then write up texts that are – as Sakurazero put it correctly – “Uninformed”.

We know what we are talking about – Cirque du Soleil knows what it is talking about, they are one of the safest companies in the world to work with.

Accidents happen – no matter how well your safety checks, inspections, etc. are, there is always the possibility something goes wrong, even when you stay inside your house the whole day (see Se7en to understand this point).

I have seen a couple of circus accidents both at Cirque du Soleil and in my own line work, and most of the time things like this happen because of an unfortunate combination of occurances – that we can only speculate about. In my own line of work 99.5% of the accidents happen because customers or employees simply do not follow directions (of which they have been informed/trained about over and over). What do you know? Maybe one audience member flashed his camera, Maybe someone was hiding a white tiger behind his big Californian hairdo…. Who knows, we´ll probably never find out and you need to respect that.

That Cirque keeps information on accidents – and the wellbeing of their employees – to themselves and confidential. I trust you understand this is a company policy and I am under the impression that when you are sick from work one day or tripped over a banana and are ICU, you would not appreciate it if your boss would call the newspaper every day to inform them about the status of your injury.

Your statement about how you “felt” after having seen the performers fall is painfull – to the point that it is disrespectful to them.

“This is my opinion and you will not change it whatever you are saying”.

You would need to come up with something better than that if you are intending to win over people with your opinion.

Maybe you should join Bush in Iraq? Following the leader!– or did you expect a warning that you could potentially get killed when going to war?

Did you actually believe ½ of New Orleans does not exist anymore because of a natural disaster?

You sound like that women who won the lawsuit Mc Donald´s/coffee or the microwave/cat case… You sound like someone who needs to see those yellow cones on the street that say “wet floor” when it rains.

What do you expect? – that Cirque and all other forms of entertainment where potentially accidents can occur put a sign in front of their theater warning you of this? – in the same way as the “sexual content” that is included in Zumanity is being “advertised” by a gazillion number of banners, signs and voice overs before the show actually starts…

Get some education, or at least an educated opinion – which is not the same as reading wikipedia - BEFORE bashing out here on a company you seem to not have the slightest clue about or safety aspects you have no experience in (since you have not answered Sakurazero´s question in that reference, we´ll take it as a “no” – thanks).

Please…

Get your overly political correctness, opinion and disrespect out of here!

- AMEN -

[Poirot]

Ohayo, Sakura Zero!

Which sources you have in mind?

Well,

1. Approx. 1 000 witnesses available.

2. Only 1-2-3 of them are sharing their opinions

3. You can visit the reference Eglantine has posted above, where you can find the same leak of detail infos.

4. In such not fair play there is no winners - only losers.

5. If it was an accident (!) there are some circumstances leading to this.

6. In order this not to be repeated, some corrective actions for sure will be taken from the Organizers.

8. The easiest solution is to stop such type aerial performances, but this will not improve the safety in other performances (read the publisher references to some Google-found newspapers and magazines).

9. The only way is to discuss the problems at forum like this one here - this way a proper safety issues probably will be established.

10. The fact is that the audience will appreciated any improvements of the artists safety. Nobody likes to be stressed by such accidents.

I want to discuss not to fight Kero Hireyo "san"
Bad peace is better then a good war, isn't it?

I'm one of those Cirque fans which would like to watch this art but neither a corrida nor a real salto mortale.
And particularly with participations of human beans there.

I'd like to repeat: I respect the opinions of all the forum people here and would like the same respect of mine own.

I suppose you understand what I'm talking about?

Hope it will help to understand the position of a regular fan of Cirque du Soleil.

Thank you very much for the understanding.

Domo arigatoo!