Zumanity Accident

[Kero Hireyo]

you miss the point.

well... at least you can count to ten, maybe you should do this more often

[Kero Hireyo]

Well,

1. Approx. 1 000 witnesses available.

Of which at most 10 have a clue how safety works in those type of productions

3. You can visit the reference Eglantine has posted above, where you can find the same leak of detail infos.

This is not giving details - this just states that she fell.

5. If it was an accident (!) there are some circumstances leading to this.

Sure... And I am sure it is on tape - so parties involved have viewed it numerous times and have concluded what caused the accident.
I assume you do not doubt the fact that it was an accident? Or do you wanna discuss whether she fell on purpose?

9. The only way to is to discuss the problems at forum like this one here - this way a proper safety issues probably will be established.

Yeah sure - that´s´also why Franco is coming back to talk some sense into them and that is why they are gonne restage Dralion, KA, Koozå and Wintuk and that´s why they have started production on an all new DVD and CD collection which shows the shows the way they were intended...

Dream on...

Cirque does not necessary like CT - they like people who eat their but out. - not people who give them opinions.... They like good press, c´est tout.

10. The fact is that the audience will appreciated any improvements of the artists safety. Nobody likes to be stressed by such accidents.

Sorry - but I can do with acts like the High wire in Corteo. I like to go bungee jumping, fast cars, roller coasters, seeing cirque death defying stunts - it is one of the things entertainment is about.
Nobody likes accidents - nobody likes to be diagonsed with leukemia either, but it happens.

[Poirot]

I understand your sarcasm, as well your position.
Thanx.
By way, don't you remember the old adage of counting to 10
before saying something when you're angry.
Do you?

[Kero Hireyo]

By way, don't you remember the old adage of counting to 10
before saying something when you're angry.
Do you?

Sure...

I read your message at 10 AM CET... It is not 4:25PM - I counted to each hour´s 3600 seconds before I replied. I am at 22,500 now: Happy?

[No One]

Whew! It's getting bitchy in here...

So, any word on anyone's condition? I know Alan is okay...

[contort08]

"10. The fact is that the audience will appreciated any improvements of the artists safety. Nobody likes to be stressed by such accidents."

As an audience member if all of the acts were created to your standards (which I'm guessing you would love the high wire in Corteo) I would not pay to see the show. Not only would the thrill of seeing somebody do something impossible be gone, the average joe customer would think "What's so hard about that they're in so many safety devices there is no way they could fall. I could do that." And then then Cirque would lose it's audience base.

As a performer, I don't normally do aerial acts, but if a company insisted on putting a "trampoline" like you suggested underneath me I would say "No thanks" and I would find another company.

Please educate yourself about the circus arts.

[Guest]

You are right - I got bad marks in Physics, but excellent in logic, I guess.

I don't know what planet you're from but putting a safety net 1m above the stage would not be a good idea...you need the net to have flexibility in order to absorb a certain amount of energy if the person were to fall...and as someone has already said, the net would need much more than a 1m lee-way in order to stop the performer from crashing into the stage. It's hardly logical at all.

I can't speak about the tissu material since I've never felt it, but the performer would have to be falling pretty freakin' fast if the tissu were to 'blow apart'...and seeing as the initial speed of an aerial performer is 0, it would not create any substantial airflow between their bodies & silks sufficient enough to blow them apart.

Point being...flawed physics, flawed logic.

[Ixtapa]

What happened to these performers is truly dreadful...but accidents happen and the artists who decide to perform those types of acts are fully aware of the risks and choose to take them. Cirque usually uses safety nets and the like whenever it is possible to do so, just like other traditional circuses do.

Millions of people have accidents while on their jobs (construction workers, firefighters, miners..just to name the obvious). We all take risks everyday just crossing the steet or driving our cars.

This said...my thoughts go to the performers who got injured...wishing them a really speedy recovery!

[koozafan]

Wow- I must've really pissed off Poirot with that safety post. What the hell is he talking about? in his 8 posts there are at least 13 or 14 totally wrong statements. Also-

8. The easiest solution is to stop such type aerial performances, but this will not improve the safety in other performances (read the publisher references to some Google-found newspapers and magazines).

Whattttt the helllllll Get rid of dangerous aerial acts? It's not your job to say that people cant do something if they want to. Youre not an aerialist, a rigger, performer,or expert. I bet that this girl loved doing circus and was just a victim of circumstance.
ps- there are a lot more dangerous things out there than circus

[Kate]

yes, lets stop performing all aerial acts on a global scale,just incase someone has an accident. In fact,for good measure, lets prohibit all tightrope,wheel of death,chinese pole and ground to air acts such as russian swings and teeterboard,because they are also incredibly dangerous.

And lets ban all manipulation acts in case a errant diabolo or juggling ball happens to fly into the audience and hit someone.Unlikely,but it could happen.

Oh,and we better cut the contortion acts as well,in case someone is emotionally distraught by the sight of the human body being twisted beyond its normal range of movement,and decides to sue.

want to go to the circus,anyone?

[singlepoint]

*Slapping myself in the head with all the shit Poirot is talking about*

Thank you, Kero Hireyo, for TRYING to give him/her some sense. The bottom line (that more than 3 people have said) is don't start blabbing about subjects you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about. It is embarrassing to this forum for you to talk such nonsense.

[Guest]

Thing is, safety wires DO NOT prevent falls or accidents. It's very possible to fall and get injured while on a safety.

There are a lot of misconceptions about safety lines in the general public and on this board.

The safety line in Corteo does NOT prevent her from falling, anymore than the wires in the Cloud Swing in Quidam,the Swinging Trapeze in Alegria and the 2nd half of the Saltimbanco and O acts, or the Chair Balancing in La Nouba prevent them from falling.

All safeties do is protect the artist IF a fall happens, but they will not prevent falls.

Most safety lines are human pulled, I know for a fact the one the Cloud Swing Artist in Quidam uses is. If she falls, and he doesn't have the right amount of tension or isn't holding the rope to pull the safety, it will do her absolutely no good what so ever.

A safety line would do more harm than good in this act. It MIGHT work for the parts when she is performing on the Hammock half of the rigging, but not for the Tissu part. And it'd be difficult, for her to re-clip in everytime she switches over to the Hammock and not break the flow of act, unless something VERY significant is happening on the Tissu or elsewhere on stage. But I don't know if this transition is when she or Olga fell to begin with. One thing I would be interested to know if it was the same trick that both artists fell on or if it was different tricks.

Where I train, safety and air awareness is drilled into us, daily, yes accidents happen, that is part of the industry and part of circus. All artists, artistic directors, and TPTB at Cirque are well aware of the risks, most, not all, but most, are trained circus performers themselves. The only change I would make to Zumanity is the stage itself, having danced on that stage once before, I will say that stage is as hard as a rock, there is ZERO give. I'd turn it into a spring floor, though it probably wouldn't make a signifcant difference in absorbing the impact in a fall of 15+ feet, and therefore, would be pointless.

And to answer Jeff's question, I've only seen Trapeze acts performed with mats underneath. I've never seen a Tissue act, or Cerceau for that matter, performed with a net or mats, at the professional level.

[Poirot]

Kipster:

Be careful in your statements, please......))

It was my opinion after reading this (go several posts backward):


"
Zumanity will stop performing the about eight-minute long "aerial silk" act while they re-examine whether it is safe, Nelving said.

This isn't the first time Zumanity players were injured doing that specific act.

About a year and a half ago, two performers fell while performing the aerial silk segment during rehearsal, Nelving said.

There have been other accidents associated with the Cirque du Soleil shows as well.
In 2002, a thousand-pound prop for the "O" show fell on Bellagio electrician Mark Brown.

He lost 25 percent of his skull and was paralyzed from the waist down.

He later sued Cirque du Soleil but settled with the company for an unknown amount as the jury was about to award him $41.6 million, according to the jury foreperson.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/11339291.html
"

Nothing to add ?![/u][/b]

[Kero Hireyo]

I am tired of trying to talk sense into you.... I´ll try for the last time....

The accident that you are referring to in Zumanity is a rigging accident, which is something completely different than what happened this time around. It is sad and unfortunate that an accident happened to the same act twice in a row and that it happened in the first place.

The "O" prop accident is of a very different nature - and that did not even include a performer, nor any acrobatic equipment.

Of course newspapers will say or make it appear it is all just the same, because they want to have something "spectecular" to report on and that will sell more copies.

A personal story to illustrate this:

I once needed to explain to a reporter than there is a difference to a wooden roller coaster and our´s which looks line one. Simply because a coaster with wooden "thematic decorations" had caught fire - and he refused to understand the difference and was convinced our "wooden coaster" should have been torn down because of safety issues. He then of course printed the story with half of my quote, taking it out of context and we sued then, and three weeks later were awarded a 3-line rectifier on page 18 by the humble court. (It is Europe after all, we do not go overboard with our claims...)

I trust you understand the fact that not everything you see or hear in the media is factual, true or uncensored (watch CNN and other news channels to understand this).

[Guest]

I would like to add.
Thinking of the beauty of her weightlessness flying through the air. Was so mesmerizing that I now know why people fill the seats of these acts year after year. The most beautiful thing I have ever seen next to giving birth. One only dreams of having such talent. Unfortunately I was not blessed with this. One trains and trains year after year to establish this type of carefree beauty. I am not a performer however if I spent that type of time I would want my audience to leave with an impression of me and my cast that would last a lifetime. The show did that without the accident in mind.

However, Everyday I take my life at my own hands when I do something I have trained to do. That's get into an automobile. I have seen seatbelts harm and save lives. I have flown many of places without incident. As many planes that leave the airports it just amazes me how those trained professionals do such a wonderful job. I do have in memory many accidents. Nothing in this world will ever be accident free as we go on wishing it would be.

I never knew this performer but my heart wishes the best for her recovery and whatever she decides to do with her life. Her beauty will always and forever stay with me.

Years ago life was different carefree and fun. Things have stolen that freedom. We worry about the neighbor who may have raped a young girl. So we wont let the children out. Worrying about drunk drivers, gangsters with guns. Walking the streets late at night. No wonder we as a nation have taken on so much TV. There is no safe way to enjoy yourself so its just easier to just stay home.

Me I am no professional just someone who loved the show.

[Poirot]

Kero:

Agree completely, with what you said.
You probably are an artist (may be profi).
You would like to do your best.
I'm probably the average Joe in the front of who you are performing.
What do you expect me to say in the case you fall in ...catching
all the flying toward you plates (for example) or you fall down
on the stage from 10m height and become invalid for the rest of your life (for example).
Which of them is tragic?
It is even not funny that I'm more interested in your safety then you are.
This is a little difficult for me to understand.
OK. You can continue to drive your "Wheel of death" in my absence.
Cheers ))

[Guest]

hi,
as a actual professional and working circus performer ( since 25) years i would like to say this:

i perform an aerial act BECAUSE I WANT 2 AND BECAUSE I LOVE IT!
being WELL aware of the risk i take everyday!
(so far i don't know anybody who does it because they get forced 2)
i do all kinds of aerial acts and i wouls absolutly HATE it if they would put a mat under my aerial hoop or tissu act, because i can callculate the risk. and i refuse to put a safty for these acts.
i put a safty line on the swinging trapeze because i can't say i work a 100% every show, and the times i made a mistake and fell, i was happy it was there!

the security in cirque is indeed as good as it can get, i worked in other places where i prayed every night that i come down alive! But i went up anyway the next day.

i find it silly that people who are not performer want to decide if we should use safty or not, don't you think that's up to us?

[sakurazero]

Well said Stephanie.

[Kero Hireyo]

I am not a circus performer, I sing in the shower and in the car – that is about it. Some people here can judge how out of tune some of that is…. I´d´probably be screwed by Simon Cowell on Idols. I am working closely with various types of entertainment professionals on a daily basis, however.

It is even not funny that I'm more interested in your safety then you are.
This is a little difficult for me to understand.

That is your own opinion. I am definately interested in my own safety, and I appreciate your concerns. However I feel you are taking things out of proportion and out of context.

OK. You can continue to drive your "Wheel of death" in my absence.
Cheers ))

Thank you.

[No One]

Watching the shows, They always make saftey cables look more like a tool for graceful descending moves... like, y'know when Dralion's green army there does that teeterboard thing and they end up on each other's shoulders (only to find out that there is no cookie jar placed high up in the rafters..)..? Well when the top girl is up there and needs to come down... that handy cable gives a "floating" effect.

Even with actual falls/accidents - they still always reach the ground, they just seem able to do it without cracked egg results.

For the same reason that you never see someone on a descent get stuck (should a rigging issue arise) .. I mean, could you imagine just.. hanging there...unable to go anywhere until some tech guy helps you out? How embarrassing..!

[Poirot]

Thank you SlowThree.
That is why some extra questions arise from this accident,
isn't it?

[No One]

Well, I wasn't implying that safety measures were that great or that bad or anything - But if you can take something that's used as a tool for safety and it just happens to double as a cool effect in the performance than great.

I would imagine, taking out the thrill of danger in a Cirque act would be like someone telling me I can perform but never improvise because "anything could happen and it could be bad!"

Well. Yeah. But it stands as much a chance of being good - My way around sounding bad is to just... rehearse my face off so I can minimize that danger.

Rehearsal is the time for safety as well as experimentation in all art. You'll develop and refine technique which will be the big deciding factor in what you can and can't do in a show.

This thread also brings up the issue of "Extreme Sports" which has been a new addition officially on the casting site - (Although we've seen Bike tricks since the beginning technically) They're called "extreme" for a reason.

Would you see Tony Hawk do a show if the ramps were mega tiny and he had a padded suit? Probably not. There's nothing interesting about it.

This is also why Cirque even has auditions - Invitation only no less. They don't have time to waste sifting through endless Average Joes who think 'Well, I can do this with enough safety measures in place".

If they did that, they wouldn't be a Circus. They'd have to change their name to the French equivalent of "Cirque du So Safe!" or "Cirque du So Lite!" or "Diet Cirque!"

Personally, I don't dig diet anything. I steer clear of Sugar Substitutes, Water ruins Rum, and I don't want my Cirque toned down either.

When I pay money for a ticket, I'm buying a mini-contract where I agree that I might see something potentially scary at the risk of seeing something intended to be beautiful. It's a bit voyeuristic - but that's what an audience is. Voyeurs.
I continue to see these shows because I trust the artists and want to show my support for their art and appreciation of their passion and the risks involved.

[Poirot]

Any good news?
Thank you.

[Guest]

Thats just terrible! Get well soon!

[Guest]

Seems the first fall is going to court.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/12530531.html

The girl just injured may be next.